Assalaamu Alaykum,

Regarding Hanbalis not attending the Jumu'ah salat on Eid, you wrote "Al-Raud Al-Murbi` likens such people to the sick, who are not personally obligated to attend Jumu`ah while they are still obligated to pray Zuhr. Since they are likened to sick people, I understand this to mean that Zuhr would still be obligatory for them."

The following website:
http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=5749 mentioned that "According to the Hanbali Madhab, we have managed to trace a view of Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (RA) who says that the Eid Salaat will suffice for the Jummu'ah, hence, after the Eid Salaat, the next Salaat that a person will have to perform is the Asr Salaat on that Friday. (Tahtaawi pg.288)."

Can you please comment on the above?

wa salaam

wa `alaykum al-salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu


The passage that you quoted above was also posted on the Hanafi list, citing www.askimam.com as a source. The complete text of the paragraph—taken from the Hanifi list—is


According to the Hambali[1] Madhab[2], we have managed[3] to trace a view of Imaam Ahmad ibn Hambal (RA)[4] who says that the Eid Salaat will suffice for the Jummu'ah,[5] hence, after the Eid Salaat, the next Salaat that a person will have to perform is the Asr Salaat on that Friday. (Tahtaawi pg.288). The Ahaadith[6] that were mentioned by the Imaam are the very same ones which the Hambalis use to support their Madhab. Before answering these Ahaadith, we need to understand a few things which are of vital importance.


Before anything else, it is a duty to verify that the above words are what the esteemed Hanifi scholar Al-Tahtawi (may Allah have mercy upon him) actually said in his wonderful marginal comments on Muraqi Al-Falah. Here is what he said,


ومذهب الإمام أحمد أن وقت الجمعة يدخل بدخول وقت صلاة العيد قال في متن المنتهي وشرحه للشيخ منصور الحنبلي وإذا وقع عيد في يوم الجمعة سقطت عمن حضر العيد ذلك اليوم سقوط حضور لا سقوط وجوب لأنه صلى الله عليه وسلم صلى العيد وقال من شاء أن يجمع فليجمع أفاده السيد

 [Hashiyat Al-Tahtawi. Al-Babi Al-Halabi p383. Bulaq p288]


Out of respect for other madhhabs, I prefer to use translations by people who have actually studied the madhhab since there are always nuances that they are bound to notice that non-specialists such as myself are bound to overlook. But as you will see, there is something odd gong on here. I render the above quote as follows,


The madhhab of Imam Ahmad [Allah be pleased with him and all other scholars] is that the time for Jumu`ah enters with the entering of the time for `Eid prayer. In Matn Al-Muntaha[7] and its commentary by Sheikh Mansur [Al-Buhuti] Al-Hanbali, “And if Eid occurs on Friday: it [Friday prayer] drops from whoever attended Eid that day—the attendance drops, not the obligation—since he (Allah bless him and give him peace) prayed Eid and said: ‘Whoever wishes to gather [for the Jumu`ah prayer]: gather’… (Hashiyat Al-Tahtawi. Al-Babi Al-Halabi p383. Bulaq p288.)


What we should immediately notice is that their English translation of the relevant text on page 188—of the Bulaq edition—says very little that agrees with what I have translated, either as a direct quotation or as a gist of what it contains.


Perhaps the text I translated was incorrect, since I used a Babi Halabi version from a CD. Since typographical mistakes on these CD are common, I checked the text with two printed editions that I have: the very same Bulaq edition that the authors of the English translation used and a new edition from Maktab Al-`Ilm Al-Hadith. But all of these editions of Hashiyat Al-Tahtawi agree on the wording of this passage.


Or perhaps it is an example of what Hanifi students always tell me: that their books are so difficult that not even the most basic books such as Al-Lubab can be understood without first mastering usul al-fiqh and logic. But the text in question here is a quote from a Hanbali source, not a Hanafi source, which means that my initial reservations of not translation from a science I have not complete read are moot, and that this warning about the difficult of Hanafi texts does not apply to this passage.


So let’s see what this Hanbali text from Sharh Al-Muntaha means. What I gave was a literal translation with a few notes for understanding:


And if Eid occurs on Friday: it [Friday prayer] drops from whoever attended Eid that day—the attendance drops, not the obligation


Instead of commenting on it to make it easier to understand, I’ll just paraphrase with something logically equivalent:


If Eid and Friday coincide, whoever attended the Eid prayer is not obligated to attend the Friday pray, though the obligation to pray still remains.


Nowhere does it explicitly say nor can it even be inferred that there is nothing to pray until `Asr.


At this point it seems fair to make the following observations:

(1)     What they cite from Al-Tahtawi does not match what is in Al-Tahtawi

(2)     What they claim regarding `Asr is not found in directly in nor is it inferable from Al-Tahtawi’s words

I leave it readers to conclude from this what they will.


As for the statement about the evidence that the Hanbali’s use: while I can accept that this is true regarding the evidence quoted from Hashiyat Al-Tahtawi, I cannot accept this as a general statement. If they have anything to back this up, they have done nothing to indicate it here. Without going to a book like Kashshaf Al-Qina` or Al-Mughni, what basis do they have for this claim?


A quick peruse of the evidence given in that file shows that they have not responded to all of the evidence that the Hanbalis use. What they did do was provide the evidence to prove their interpretation of things without providing corresponding evidence that proves Imam Ahmad’s interpretation of things. If it is reprehensible for innovators and non-Muslims to misrepresent an opinion of one of the major Imams of Islam and to weaken the Imam’s evidence for his opinion, then it is even more reprehensible for someone who striving to be a student of sacred knowledge!


Finally, we need to keep in mind that while each school of fiqh does agree on four primary sources (Qur’an, sunnah, consensus and analogy)—a point they made in their article—each school has additional sources of law and each school has slight variations in how they use each type of evidence. While the argument that the authors make for this issue is strong with respect to the Hanifi usul, this does not necessitate that the ruling is weak with respect to any other madhhab.


With this said, it really would be pointless to go over the rest of their article in entirety even though there is much that can be said. But I will say this: giving the position from a madhhab without even going to one of that madhhab’s single primary references is nothing short of negligence. While this may look good to the laymen, sincerity and honesty dictate giving respect to all Imams and scholar of Islam—even when they are not from your madhhab! It is beyond me how those shuyukh who approved of this article put their names on it with the only source for Hanbali fiqh being Hashiyat Al-Tahtawi was cited as the sole source for a ruling from Hanbali fiqh.


In closing, we might as well settle the issue of what the Hanbali madhhab has to say about this issue. Here’s a very quick translation from Kashshaf Al-Qina`. The Arabic text is included as a footnote at the end of the translation. Please note that the primary text and the commentary have been translated together.


If Eid occurs on Jumu`ah, they pray Eid and Zuhr: this is permissible and Jumu`ah drops from whoever attended Eid with the Imam, since the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) prayed Eid and said: “Whoever wishes to gather [for Jumu`ah]: gather!” Imam Ahmad related it from the hadith of Zaid bin Arqam. And in that case: attending Jumu`ah drops, not the obligation, so this individual’s ruling is the ruling of the sick or someone similar who has an excuse or is busied by something which makes it permissible for him to leave Jumu`ah—but its obligation does not drop, just as someone on a journey or a slave, since the dropping here is to make things easier: so Jumu`ah becomes valid with him [attending] and it is valid for him to lead it.


And it is better to attend Jumu`ah to remove oneself from disagreement. Except for the Imam—since attending Jumu`ah does not drop from him because of what Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah related from the hadith of Ahu Hurayrah (Allah be well pleased with him) that he said that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said: “Two Eids [celebrations] have joined on this day of yours. For whomsoever wishes: it [Eid] suffices him from Jumu`ah, but we will be gathering [to pray Jumu`ah]. Trustworthy narrators [thiqat] narrated it and it is one of the narrations of Baqiyah and he has said, “he unformed us” [haddathana]. And also because if he [the Imam] left it [Jumu`ah] anyone for whom it is obligatory would be barred from performing it, and [so would] anyone who wanted to perform it for whom the obligation had been dropped. And according to following this opinion: if the relevant number (m: 40 people) gather with him for Jumu`ah, he performs it; otherwise they pray Zuhr. He [Ibn Rajab (Allah have mercy upon him)] said in the 18th general principle:[8] “And following the transmitted opinion [of Imam Ahmad (Allah be pleased with him)] that it does not drop”— from the Imam—“it is obligatory that that they (m: that number) attend with him for that prayer.” The author of Al-Talkhis and others mentioned it, so here Jumu`ah becomes like a group obligation (m: instead of an individual obligation) for some people by 40 people attending.


As for those who do not pray Eid with the Imam, it is obligatory for them to go to the Jumu`ah—whether or not the relevant number attends. In Sharh Al-Muntaha he said that this is according to one single opinion. Then, if they reach the relevant number on their own by being 40, or others attend with them who complete the number if they were less than it—Jumu`ah becomes prescribed for them since the conditions which make it obligatory and the conditions which make it valid have been fulfilled. Otherwise, if (m: *Arabic text missing from here…) they did not reach 40 by themselves and no one attended with them, their excuse (m: for not praying Jumu`ah) has manifested because of the condition for validating being missing.


Eid drops because of Jumu`ah if Jumu`ah is prayed before the zenith or after it, because of the action of (m: * …end of missing text) Ibn Al-Zubayr (Allah be pleased with them both) and Ibn `Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) saying, “You have accomplished the sunnah,” narrated by Abu Dawud. So according to this: nothing is required of them until `Asr.


And Abu Dawud has narrated on the authority of `Ata’ that he said that

Jumu`ah and Eid Al-Fitr coincided on the same day during the life of Ibn Al-Zubar. So Ibn Zl-Zubayr said, “Two Eids have gathered during one day” and he gathered the people together and prayed two rak`at with them in the early morning [bukrah] and  did nothing in addition to the two [rak`at] until praying `Asr.

Al-Khattabi said that this is not possible except according to the opinion of those who go the way [yadhhab] of Jumu`ah being before the zenith. So following this, Ibn Zubayr (Allah be pleased with them both) had prayed Jumu`ah and Eid and Zuhr dropped. And because if Jumu`ah is dropped by Eid in spite of its emphasis, then it is even more appropriate that Eid be dropped by it.


(Kashshaf Al-Qina` (2:40-41))[9]                                                


Anyone who wishes to pursue the issue, I recommend that they refer to Al-Mughni, as it gives one of the best discussions on the evidence.


And Allah knows best.


wa al-salamu `alaykum


[1] it’s Hanbali with an nun, not a mim

[2] No, it’s a madhhab. It’s a Xerox machine, not a Xerox Machine.

[3]According to the Hambali Madhab, we have managed…” – Really? The Hanbali madhhab has an opinion on what the authors of this paragraph have managed to do? Perhaps what the authors intended was that they have managed to “trace” and opinion that according to the Hanbali madhhab, etc, etc…

[4] No, Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal—again with a nun—(Allah be pleased with him)—not (RA) since it is offensive to use abbreviations. If you don’t have time you leave room and fill it in later. When the early Muslims recorded hadith for us (may Allah be abundantly pleased with their work), paper was expensive, ink was a chore to use, and lugging all of this stuff around with you involved great effort. Even with this they still wrote everything out. Instead of getting stingy they learned to write smaller. It is said that some students wrote so small that they could carry one hundred thousand hadiths under their sleeve.

[5] Is that “Jummu`ah” with a shaddah on the mim or “Jumu`ah” without?

[6] In English it should be with a small letter ay.

[7] Muntaha Al-Iradat

[8] Ibn Rajab’s book on fiqh principles is among his greatest masterpieces if not his greatest.

[9] وإذا وقع عيد يوم الجمعة فصلوا العيد والظهر جاز ذلك وسقطت الجمعة عمن حضر العيد مع الإمام لأنه صلى الله عليه وسلم صلى العيد وقال من شاء أن يجمع فليجمع رواه أحمد من حديث زيد بن أرقم وحينئذ فتسقط الجمعة إسقاط حضور لا إسقاط وجوب فيكون حكمه كمريض ونحوه ممن له عذر أو شغل يبيح ترك الجمعة و لا يسقط عنه وجوبها فيكون كمسافر وعبد لأن الإسقاط للتخفيف فتنعقد به الجمعة ويصح أن يؤم فيها والأفضل حضورها خروجا من الخلاف إلا الإمام فلا يسقط عنه حضور الجمعة لما روى أبو داود وابن ماجه من حديث أبي هريرة عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال اجتمع في يومكم هذا عيدان فمن شاء أجزأه من الجمعة وإنا مجمعون ورواته ثقات وهو من رواية بقية وقد قال حدثنا ولأنه لو تركها لامتنع فعلها في حق من تجب عليه ومن يريدها ممن سقطت عنه ف على هذا إن اجتمع معه العدد المعتبر للجمعة أقامها وإلا صلوا ظهرا قال في القاعدة الثامنة عشرة وعلى رواية عدم السقوط أي عن الإمام فيجب أن يحضر معه به تلك الصلاة ذكره صاحب التلخيص وغيره فتصير الجمعة ههنا فرض كفاية لبعض بحضور أربعين

وأما من لم يصل العيد مع الإمام فيلزمه السعي إلى الجمعة بلغوا العدد المعتبر أو لا قال في شرح المنتهى قولا واحدا ثم إن بلغوا العدد المعتبر بأنفسهم بأن كانوا أربعين أو حضر معهم تمام العدد إن كانوا دونه لزمتهم الجمعة لتوفر شروط الوجوب والصحة وإلا بأن  [text missing. See 2:41]لفعل ابن الزبير وقول ابن عباس أصاب السنة رواه أبو داود فعلى هذا لا يلزمه شيء إلى العصر روى أبو داود عن عطاء قال اجتمع يوم جمعة ويوم فطر على عهد ابن الزبير فقال عيدان قد اجتمعا في يوم واحد فجمعهم وصلى ركعتين بكرة فلم يزد عليهما حتى صلى العصر قال الخطابي وهذا لا يجوز إلا على قول من يذهب إلى تقديم الجمعة قبل الزوال فعلى هذا يكون ابن الزبير قد صلى الجمعة فسقط العيد والظهر ولأن الجمعة إذا سقطت بالعيد مع تأكيدها فالعيد أولى أن يسقط بها

فإن فعلت الجمعة بعده أي الزوال اعتبر العزم على الجمعة لترك صلاة العيد قاله ابن تميم وقال في التنقيح والمنتهى فيعتبر العزم عليها ولو فعلت قبل الزوال وهو ظاهر الفروع وقدمه في الإنصاف

[Kashshaf Al-Qina`, 2:40-41]



(m: Please do not ask about the following paragraph. I checked through other references to clarify the meaning of اعتبر العزم which is not immediately clear. I include this only for the sake of completeness.)


And if Jumu`ah is done after the zenith, the firm intention [`azm] for Jumu`ah is considered because of omitting praying Eid; Ibn Tamamim said this. And in Al-Tanqih and Al-Muntaha it is said that firm intention [`azm] for Jumu`ah is considered even if it were performed before the zenith, and it is the most obvious position in Al-Furu` [Ibn Muflih, (2:203)] and in Al-Insaf [Fi Ma`rifat Al-Rajih Min Al-Khilaf (2:405)] he [`Ali Al-Mardawi] gave it precedence in.