Bismillahi Al-Rahmani Al-Rahim

Saying Takbir As A Follower (2)

As-salaamu 'alaikum,

In 'Umdah al-Fiqh and 'Uddah concerning the waajibat we have:

"These if he omits them on purpose his prayer is invalid and if he omits them out of forgetfulness then he makes up for them by making sujood" (pg: 80, maktabah ubaykan)

Dalil at-Talib: the prayer is nullified if they are ommitted on purpose, and they are dropped if forotten or if they are left due to ignorance.

the takbirat al-Masbuq which is after the takbirat al-Ihram is considered to be from the sunan [Manar as-sabeel (vol 1, pg 119)].

Where have you taken the ruling you have stated from?

was-salaamu 'alaikum.

Wa `alaykum al-salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

Al-hamdu lillah.

What I wrote in a previous message:

Saying “allahu akbar” is obligatory [wajib, not fard] for the imam and for individuals. It is not obligatory to say “allahu akbar” when praying behind an imam, though it is recommended. Even if one were to intentionally omit saying “allahu akbar”—with the exception of the inaugural takbir—when praying behind an imam, it would have no effect on the validity of the prayer, and there is absolutely no reason to make sujud sahu for doing so.

is, in fact, incorrect. I was mistaken in including the non-inaugural takbirs among the seven things that the imam's performance suffices for the followers, which include:

  1. Reciting al-Fathiha

  2. Prostration occasioned by reciting verses containing a sajda

  3. General neglect, provided that one was with the imam from the beginning

  4. A barrier behind which one prays

  5. Saying du`a al-qunut

  6. Saying “sami` allahu li man hamidah” and “mil'u al-sama...”

And now, a quick return to the original question:

[...] what should you do if you forget to say Allahu Akbar as you move from, say, sajdah to standing? Should you do the sajdah sahu after the Imam has said salams?

The email above lists from Dalil al-Talib (quoting the above e-mail) the consequences of omitting something that is wajib, namely that: “the prayer is nullified if they are omitted on purpose, and they are dropped if forgotten or if they are left due to ignorance”, and that Al-`Umdah adds: “if he omits them out of forgetfulness then he makes up for them by making sujood”.

Applying both definitions to the above question, the person would need to make a prostration of forgetfulness for forgetting to say the non-inaugural takbirs. However, in the case of praying behind an imam, the imam “carries” the prostration of forgetfulness for him.

So I freely admit that I made a slip by including the non-inaugural takbirs among that which the imam “carries”. And while the follower's prayer is still valid, the reason I stated in the first message was incorrect.

[See Matalib Uli al-Nuha, 1:625.i]

And Allah knows best.

I admit that in the discipline of fiqh I am an apprentice. Where I have succeeded, it is only through the blessing and grace of Allah; and where I have faltered it is from my own shortcomings. When the readers finds mistakes, I hope that they will point them out, as this brother has done, so they can be corrected. And I hope that the one who finds them bears in mind that it is noble to overlook the weak when they falter, and that good deeds cancel out the bad.

Wa al-salamu `alaykum,

iSee Matalib Uli al-Nuha, 1:625. The Arabic text is as follows:

(وَيَتَحَمَّلُ إمَامٌ عَنْ مَأْمُومٍ قِرَاءَةَ) فَاتِحَةٍ (وَسُجُودِ تِلَاوَةٍ) أَتَى بِهَا الْمَأْمُومُ فِي الصَّلَاةِ خَلْفَهُ، (وَ) سُجُودَ (سَهْوٍ بِشَرْطٍ)، وَهُوَ إذَا كَانَ مَعَهُ فِي الرَّكْعَةِ الْأُولَى( وَسُتْرَةٍ)؛ لِأَنَّ سُتْرَةَ الْإِمَامِ سُتْرَةٌ لِمَنْ خَلْفَهُ ,( وَدُعَاءٍ قُنُوتٍ) فَيُؤَمِّنُ إذَا سَمِعَ الْإِمَامَ، وَإِلَّا فَيَقْنُتُ. (وَ) يَتَحَمَّلُ الْإِمَامُ (عَنْ) الْمَأْمُومِ أَيْضًا (تَسْمِيعًا)، أَيْ: قَوْلَ: سَمِعَ اللَّهُ لِمَنْ حَمِدَهُ ,( وَ) قَوْلَ( مِلْءُ السَّمَاءِ إلَى آخِرِهِ) بَعْدَ التَّحْمِيدِ، (وَكَذَا تَشَهُّدٌ أَوَّلٌ) وَجُلُوسُهُ لَهُ (إذَا سَبَقَ بِرَكْعَةٍ) مِنْ رُبَاعِيَّةٍ، لِوُجُوبِ الْمُتَابَعَةِ. (وَيَتَّجِهُ: فِي غَيْرِ مَغْرِبٍ)، وَأَمَّا فِي الْمَغْرِبِ، فَلَا يَتَحَمَّلُ عَنْهُ؛ لِأَنَّ مَحَلَّ تَشَهُّدِهِ الْأَوَّلِ هُوَ مَحَلُّ تَشَهُّدِ الْإِمَامِ الْأَخِيرِ، فَلَا عُذْرَ لَهُ فِي تَرْكِهِ، (خِلَافًا لَهُمَا)، أَيْ "لِلْإِقْنَاعِ" "وَالْمُنْتَهَى" (فِيمَا يُوهِمُ) مِنْ إطْلَاقِهِمَا، وَهُوَ مُتَّجِهٌ.